Redbud and oaks, Merced River Canyon, processed in Lightroom 3
If you’re a regular reader of this blog you know that I’m a big fan of Lightroom. It’s easy to use, yet powerful, which makes it a great tool for both beginning and advanced photographers. I teach workshops about Lightroom, and wrote an eBook about it, because I think it’s a tool that can help many photographers. Personally, as Lightroom’s processing tools have grown more sophisticated I’ve used Lightroom more and more and Photoshop less and less.
As many of you probably know, Lightroom 4 went on sale yesterday. In this new version Adobe has completely revamped the Basic panel, with significant improvements in highlight and shadow recovery. I’ve already used the beta version of Lightroom 4 to take advantage of those improvements. For example, I was able to get smoother transitions around the sun in one of the photographs from this post (“Ross’s geese taking flight at sunset”).
The Basic panel tools have completely changed in both operation and behavior, which may require some modifications in they way we work in Lightroom. I’m looking forward to exploring these new tools, and telling you about my discoveries, but unfortunately I’ve encountered a frustrating roadblock—a bug in Lightroom 4 that causes all of my Tone Curve settings for images previously processed in Lightroom 3 to disappear! All I see is the default Tone Curve for the camera, and, since I do most of the tonal adjustments for every image with curves, my images look rather flat (the accompanying images show one example of this). And I don’t want to re-create the curve for thousands of images!
I don’t know how widespread this is, so you might not encounter any problems. Only the Point Curve seems to be affected, not the Parametric Curve, so if you never touch the Point Curve you probably won’t notice any difference. But if you do use the point curve then you might wait until they correct this bug before you upgrade. Adobe is aware of the problem, and they’re promising a fix soon.
This issue only affects images previously processed in Lightroom 3, so if you’ve never used Lightroom before you should be fine. And Adobe has reduced the price of Lightroom 4, at least temporarily, to only $149 for a new license, or $79 for an upgrade.
Fortunately my point curves are still intact in Lightroom 3, even after I’ve opened the same image in the Develop module of Lightroom 4. For now I’ll keep using Lightroom 3 as my primary tool, and just use Lightroom 4 for testing. I’ll keep you posted, and let you know when Adobe fixes the point curve problem, and what I learn about the new tools.
—Michael Frye
Related Posts: Lightroom 4 Beta
Michael Frye is a professional photographer specializing in landscapes and nature. He is the author and photographer of The Photographer’s Guide to Yosemite, Yosemite Meditations, and Digital Landscape Photography: In the Footsteps of Ansel Adams and the Great Masters, plus the eBook Light & Land: Landscapes in the Digital Darkroom. He has written numerous magazine articles on the art and technique of photography, and his images have been published in over thirty countries around the world. Michael has lived either in or near Yosemite National Park since 1983, currently residing just outside the park in Mariposa, California
Redbud and oaks, Merced River Canyon, after the point curve was lost in Lightroom 4
Dang, I upgraded to Lightroom 3 just weeks ago.
Rosemary, you might be eligible for a free upgrade. See http://slickdeals.net/f/4032582-FREE-Adobe-Lightroom-4-Upgrade-if-you-purchased-LR-3-recently
Rosemary, Adobe has a policy of complimentary upgrades if you’ve just purchased LR. Here is the link: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/153/tn_15304.html?PID=4485850 When you call in, there might be some confusion about the back date. I have heard that this applies to purchases made after February 6. If you reach a customer service agent that has a different date, ask them to check or call back to talk to another agent.
Good luck!
Craig, Sabrina, thanks for chiming in here and helping Rosemary.
If you updated your entire library to the new develop process (2012) then it does exactly what you’re experiencing. After I saw that exclamation point asking if I wanted to update an older photo in the develop module I almost clicked yes, then slowed down and tested 12 images. They all looked horrid and I would have had to do all my tonal changes over as well. If you didn’t update your entire library it doesn’t touch the adjustments but you don’t have access to the new sliders on photos edited with the 2010 develop process. Perhaps you can Time Machine back or something? I’m considering going back to LR3 until I can redo all my presets to conform to the new develop process as most of them don’t work like they used to at all anymore. Good luck!
Thanks Andrew. Just to be clear, the problem I’m seeing isn’t related to updating the process version. If I take an image that I’ve previously applied a point curve adjustment to in Lightroom 3, and just look at it in the Develop module of Lightroom 4, the image’s appearance changes, and I can see that the curve is at its default—all without doing anything to it – it’s still in the 2010 process. It’s a bug, not just the difference in appearance between 2010 and 2012 processes.
Luckily I don’t need to resort to Time Machine or anything like that. Everything is still intact in Lightroom 3, and I can just continue to use that until the bug gets fixed.
Another temporary problem is that if you make changes to a raw image in LR 4 and then open it in Photoshop you get a message that it might not work without installing the Camera Raw update 7.0, which is presently not available yet. Indeed, it opens in ACR but none of the changes you made it LR are present. I’ve read the Adobe forums and so far the best I can tell is the Camera Raw update will only be available when Photoshop CS6 ships. Hopefully soon!
Yes, I’d encountered that issue with the Lightroom 4 beta. Foosion mentions one solution below, but you can also just choose to “render using Lightroom.” The drawback to that is you can’t open the image in Photoshop as a Smart Object, which has become SOP for me.
I’d recommend using LR3 for old images and LR4 for new images, at least until the fix the problem.
The new LR4 develop module, especially the shadows and highlights adjustments, are well worth the price of admission and are a significant advance.
Backup the LR3 catalog before upgrading, just to be safe. You can then import that catalog into LR4 once the fix the bugs.
BTW, if you use CS5, download the ACR 6.7 RC for compatibility with the new LR4 2012 develop process.
If you do that though you’d have two separate libraries which can be a pain to merge. You can still use the old develop module/sliders for photos that you don’t update to the new develop process in LR4. You’ll see an exclamation point in the bottom right corner and all the sliders will be as they were in LR3. If you click that exclamation point and update that photo or your entire library (which I think a lot of people are doing) then there’s no going back to the old develop process without either going back in the history of each individual image or restoring your library from a previous back up. Just my thoughts.
Merging libraries is no problem. Just use the File -> Import from another catalog function. You can import when you install LR4 or at any time in the future.
At least some people are reporting that merely importing from LR3 loses the tone curve info, even if you don’t click the exclamation point to upgrade to the 2012 process version.
There are some bugs that affect only a portion of users. If you read some of the popular LR forums, you’ll see debates between people who are having a problem and people who aren’t having that problem, both assuming their experiences are universal.
Running in parallel isn’t ideal, but it’s better than losing your tone curves or not starting to use LR4, IMO.
Foosion, thanks for the suggestion about the ACR 6.7 release candidate – I didn’t know about that one.
>At least some people are reporting that merely importing from LR3 loses the tone curve info, even if you don’t click the exclamation point to upgrade to the 2012 process version.
Count me as one of those people – I lose the tone curve (actually only the point curve) when I import into Lightroom 4, without upgrading to the 2012 process version.
Part of the confusion you’re talking about stems from some people having the issue, and some people not having it, which may be due to different hardware configurations. But it may also be related to whether someone is using the point curve or not. If not, they won’t see the problem. If they only use the point curve occasionally, they may not notice the problem until they take one of those images into the Develop module in Lightroom 4, or try to export it. Or of course they may not have the problem at all.
Tony, if you install ACR 6.7 RC, you can ignore the error message about ACR 7.0.
ACR will allow you to process LR4 images in CS5. It doesn’t include sliders for the new process version, but will allow you to edit with LR4 adjustments.
Oh my! Thanks so much for this info Michael. Going to wait for a bit before I upgrade then.
Thank you for this info Michael. I purchased LR4 from BH already and its on its way. I liked the idea of shadows/highlights and one of the others, but now am concern about my images that are already edited in previous versions of LR. I do not use curves at all, but do use all the other adjustment options including assigning the 2010. Some still have not been assigned to 2010 since they were edited in an earlier version of LR. I am a little confuse over what I have read here, which is why I am asking specifically. If I don’t want any issues with my photos or loose any edits, should I wait, or will I be okay to upgrade now since I don’t use curves?
Thanks again!
Michele, since you don’t use curves at all, I don’t think you’ll have a problem. Of course with any brand new piece of software there could be other bugs, but you shouldn’t experience this one!
Thanks Michael. I don’t have a clear understanding on all this technical stuff, but I do know I love LR, and its the first software I have really liked and been successful with, so it makes me a tad nervous to upgrade. Thanks for your clarification. 🙂
I have been making virtual copies of images previously processed in LR3 and upgrading the process version of the copy. This seems to leave the process version of the original unaffected.
Also, if you Option-click the exclamation (on Mac), it upgrades the process version of the selected file without asking whether you want to upgrade the whole film-strip or just that file.
One possible issue that may effect some is if you use Develop Presets. Due to the changes to exposure, contrast, blacks etc, all you preset settings that make use of those sliders will default to zero. However, settings for clarity, vibrance, HSL etc will still work. If you have any favorite or often-used presets, you’ll need to recreate them and save them again.
Craig.. I have used presets, so will the images transfer over to LR 4 the presets used. I’m not too worried about transferring the presets themselves over, just my images. Thanks!
Michele, you shouldn’t have a problem with images where you applied presets in Lightroom 3. The images should look the same in Lightroom, with the same settings applied, unless you click the exclamation point and update the image to the current (2012) process. Then you might see subtle changes, but not major ones. Your old presets will still work in Lightroom 4 with the 2010 process (Lightroom 3), but will not work with the new 2012 process.
I must have clicked a “don’t show this message again” box at some point, because I don’t see that dialog when I click the exclamation point, even if I don’t hold down the Option key. But in any case, as I mentioned in some of the comments above, the problem I’m experiencing is unrelated to updating the process version – it happens upon importing the images into Lightroom 4, and the images are still in the 2010 process. But your suggestion of using virtual copies when updating the process version is a good one. You could always go back in the History if you need to, but having the virtual copy allows you to easily make a before and after comparison. I’ll remember that when they fix that bug and I can actually really use Lightroom 4 for my old images!
I just upgraded to LR4 last night and played with it only for a short bit…but I did notice that point curve thing, but didn’t think too much about it. Thanks for the heads up, Michael, and I’ll keep an eye out for the fix. In the meantime, I’ll keep working on the old images in LR3 and the new in LR4. I am excited to try out the new tools in the Develop module!
Sorry you’ve experienced the same problem Vivienne – let’s hope they fix that soon. The new Shadow and Highlight tools are quite good, but you may see changes without even touching these tools. Apparently highlight recovery is applied automatically to some images.
Love the redbuds! I get to see them when I visit the Smoky Mountains in the springtime. Like you I use Lightroom 3 more than Photoshop. I have been anticipating the release of LR4 while using the beta version. I haven’t ordered it yet but I will soon. Do you know how long it will be discounted for?
Thanks Michael – redbuds are favorites of mine too. I don’t know how long the discount will last. It’s unusual for Adobe to discount something upon release, so maybe it’s a permanent price reduction. But don’t count on that!
Glad to hear that this was not user error on my part.
I was editing a photo in LR 3.6 on Tuesday, and decided to tweak it in LR 4.
The photo is a night shot that I took of a waterfall at the FDR Memorial in DC, and I had done quite a bit of Point Curve work, for shadow and light enhancements.
When I imported my photo to LR 4, my curves got eaten for lunch 🙁
I was able to go back to LR 3.6 and retrieve my previous work, so this was not a big deal.
Now for the good news …
Adobe Support is aware of the curves issue, and are working on a fix.
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr4_deleted_all_my_tone_curve_adjustments
Sorry to hear you’ve had the same problem Paolo. Hope they fix this soon!
Thank you Michael.
Below is the link for my finished photo, which I uploaded to my Panoramio & Picaso sites this past weekend.
It has been nominated in Panoramio’s March photo contest under the night photo category.
Hope you like it.
http://v17.lscache6.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/68265345.jpg
Since I’m still in the dark ages using CS2 and no Lightroom yet, I may take the plunge.
Well if you do you won’t experience the problem I mention here, as it only applies to images previously processed in Lightroom 3.
Here’s some more info on the issue and what Adobe is doing about it:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=63474.msg511266#msg511266
Jeff Schewe, who wrote that message, does work for Adobe and can be trusted in these matters.
Schewe gives more detail than I’ve found elsewhere about the problem – thanks for the link. Does he really work for Adobe? I thought he was a consultant or something.
If you use LRG One to create PayPal-compatible galleries to your website, you may want to wait on upgrading for a bit, as there appear to be compatibility problems with LR4
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=63424.0
I just wrote a Blog about how to upgrade your Lightroom 3 to LR4 if you purchased it recently – hope this helps a few people or you can repost it for members to know… I had a lot of my members go and buy LR3 and then when LR4 was released it was the SAME price… http://pappagallo.typepad.com/az_photography_tips/2012/03/free-lightroom-4-upgrade-for-late-adopters-of-lr3.html
Thanks Nicholas – very helpful.